#label discourse

[undertalepilled]

I wish people treated queerness as breaking the rules of the dominant cis-hetero patriarchy so you can authentically be yourself. Instead of adhering to a new slightly less restrictive set of rules which you will deride other people for not following (basically whatever label discourse is now flaring up)

[moonlightsapphic]

Reasons why someone may identify as bi lesbian (a valid identity!):

a bi woman who experiences rare attraction to men but never enough to date one.

a bi woman who was attracted to a man only once in her life, so he is like an exception.

a woman who is bisexual but monoromantic towards women, or biromantic but monosexual towards women.

a bi woman who is only attracted to non-men and occasionally fem men.

a bi woman who doesn’t date men and doesn’t intend to ever do so.

a lesbian who formerly was bisexual and now her identity has shifted, and she wants her label to reflect both.

a late-in-life lesbian who is married to a man but is comfortable staying with her husband because of their unique love/companionship.

a poly lesbian whose partner’s partners (whom they may rendezvous with) may rarely include men.

a lesbian who does not identify as “monosexual” or “monoromatic” despite only being attracted to non-men, since she feels that she is attracted to multiple non-men genders.

a lesbian in a relationship with a trans man.

a “straight” trans man who formerly identified as a masc lesbian and remains in a relationship with a lesbian.

a bi transmasc who prefers to date other transmascs as well as women.

a transfem bi woman who strongly identifies with centering her life around womanhood and wlw love.

a genderfluid lesbian.

a bisexual woman using the pre-separatism meaning of “lesbian”, back when it was an umbrella term for all sapphics.

… and many more!

*I use “woman” and “she/her” in these examples but this may apply to any genderqueer sapphics as well!

Yes, many of these experiences can be described by using one of “bi” or “lesbian”, rather than both in combination. Lesbianism includes many non-men genders and trans women! Bisexuality includes all genders including trans folks! Lesbianism is considered monosexual identity, but also in some ways multisexual, and “bi lesbian” is often used by those who strongly identify with being mspec. Labels are for our comfort in identifying ourselves and our lived experiences, as well as to accurately communicate our identities to others. We shouldn’t police them! Queer people are deviant and complex by nature! Rigid rules are for the patriarchy, not us. Labeling conventions are fully arbitrary and we should prioritise what will maximise queer folks’ happiness.

Folks spend a lot of (misplaced) energy hating on the label “bi lesbian” and want to eradicate it by claiming it is TERF propaganda—however that’s not very nuanced. There are queer elders who use this term—should we really have the audacity to tell them how to live? Ironically it’s gender essentialist in and of itself to try to put people in a box. We should remember that bisexuals and lesbians originally were all just “lesbians” (ie in the same way we use “sapphic” as an umbrella term today), and it was TERF rhetoric in second-wave feminism that resulted in lesbian separatism. A simple label used by a tiny minority can’t cause all kinds of scary lesbophobia, biphobia, and transphobia (as it is, endosex allocishetero people can barely tell bisexuality from lesbianism anyway and don’t know a thing about trans people either ;n;)—If it is a possibility, that’s our job as a community to fight back misinformation. :)

[chaos-in-one]

It's so funny to me when people yell & make entire posts about how xyz identity isn't valid

Like, okay? You saying that doesn't stop anyone who labels that way from existing, or continuing to use that label. Your opinion on the "validity" of someone else's identity means very little- at the most it'll just make someone who labels that way feel like shit for a bit.

But generally? Our identities don't rely on your validation. You saying that my, or anyone else's identity "isn't valid" doesn't make it go away. I'm still going to be exactly who I was before you said that. That identity is still going to be a part of me. It doesn't just disappear the second someone doesn't believe in it.

[fisheatingorca]

Where's the identity bible that tells me if im valid or not

[tofumarinado]

my stance with labels will always be that, if the label works for you, use it.

maybe some people are mad about it, maybe some people who use that label will be mad at you, maybe you're a little sad about it because you really want the label people to accept you. but at the end of the day, losing yourself is the lowest form of existence, and if the price you have to pay is to upset some people, do it. please for the love of everything, do it.

there is no harm being done in you identifying as whatever you want.

if you're waiting on people to fully be okay with what you are before living your life, you'll always be waiting. for me there is no tragedy larger than that.

waiting is not postponing a choice, waiting is a choice and it has consequences, sometimes consequences that will haunt you for years on end.

do the thing, please. be a fucking weirdo. you were not born into this world to make friends of everyone. breathe and take space, eat, be loud, be fucking annoying. but please be.

[evolvedclown]

for all the people (usually on tiktok/fb/twitter) who think that having multiple labels to describe your gender and sexuality is over doing it or too much or cringy. the amount of words id needs to use to really explain who i am to you would make you cry. it’s a whole single spaced, 10pt font, 5,000 word essay to really explain.

it’s how labels work. you either have none or a million and that’s ok.

sometimes they mesh well. sometimes they conflict with eachother. sometimes they fit some days sometimes others. they may change every day, every year. you might never tell someone else, you might broadcast it to everyone.

anyway it goes. your labels are yours. and that’s all that matters

[gamora-borealis]

bi sapphic & lesbian terminology rant incoming:

something I've been thinking on a lot is like, I understand how lesbians get upset about bi sapphics using the term lesbian because they don't want people to assume that lesbians are at all attracted to men, often because shitty people, especially shitty men, will try and use any excuse to be like "but maybe you could be attracted to guys!!!, which is invalidating and gross. however, on a practical level it's weird sometimes because I feel like so many people still use the term lesbian to mean wlw / sapphic-ness in general. like for example like, if you are a bi sapphic in a wlw and/or sapphic relationship I feel like most people just refer to your relationship as a "lesbian" relationship. or someone might say "oh lesbians do [insert stereotype]" and a ton of bi sapphics probably are like "well hey that's me." and "sapphic" is such an in-community term too for the most part like I rarely hear it outside of queer spaces. idk like, I try not to totally claim the word lesbian as a bi sapphic since I respect that lesbians want a descriptive word that means they aren't attracted to men, but I also wish that more people online weren't quite as weird and rigid about the term because I feel like at least 50% if not more of the time someone irl says "lesbian" or "dyke" they are including bi sapphics in that. even more so when it comes to describing people's relationships.

like as bi sapphics we should respect lesbians and their unique identity but I would love to see more/better solidarity with bi sapphics from lesbians too.

[gnometa233]

Why is it ALWAYS the people who aren't lesbians saying shit like "why can't lesbians and bisexuals just get along :((. We have bigger things to fight for! Bisexual lesbians aren't hurting anybody" like okay! We get it! Yall hate lesbians and hate when we have our own words to discuss our experiences and attraction! You can't stand it when we exist because it reminds you that you don't have to center men! You think that all ~queer women~ can just be flattened down into one homogenous group! Well guess what! We can't! Holy fucking shit just mind your own buisness and stay away from lesbians

[oddieramblignonsence]

Smth I've noticed is that contradictory terms discourse most often seems to be targeted at lesbians. You can't be a bi lesbian, you can't be a lesboy, you can't be a he/him lesbian, it all connects back to lesbians. Maybe the labels aren't the problem, maybe you just hate lesbians. Consider fucking off instead.

Also, on that note, labels are just ways humans have found to explain experiences. They're not etched in stone things. Leave the lgbtq+ community united as it should be and not torn apart because the idea that a lesbian feels most comfortable with he/him pronouns leaves you shaking in your boots.

[ctommies]

queer discourse is so stupid. we are all fags in the eyes of the law.

[yaplemur]

rant post about exorsexism denial because jesus fucking christ i'm tired

this is directed at no one in particular bc exorsexism appears literally everywhere, but i've spotted some people claiming that exorsexism isn't a real thing, that since it derives from transphobia and the patriarchy (and therefore misogyny) that we should just be using those terms instead. even as someone who isn't fond of the term "transandrophobia" for transmasc-specific oppression, this... bothers me. a lot.

firstly, i want to state that my disagreement with transandrophobia as a term isn't out of denial that certain forms of transphobia are targeted at transmascs specifically. it's the fact that there is no transmasc equivalent to transmisogyny, which is what this term seeks to establish, and that it claims that misandry is part of the reason for transmasc-specific oppression. this isn't true, and that's for a lot of reasons i'll probably dedicate to a second post.

exorsexism does none of those things. it doesn't claim that men are oppressed for being men, it claims that nonbinary people are oppressed for specifically being nonbinary. this is objectively true, and it shows not only in society's refusal to acknowledge our identities, but the sentiment that we aren't as "worthy" of the lgbt community's protections as other trans people. that nonbinary people might as well be Spicy Cishets who just made up their own gender to feel special.

the main two flavors of exorsexism i've seen are "your identity isn't real, you're just a cringe (usually) cis woman who wants to feel special" and "your identity is real, but you don't truly understand what it's like to be trans like binary trans people do, so shut up". it's the latter camp that i've seen deny exorsexism the most, and i've seen it in almost every area of the lgbt community i can think of. it's a very nasty form of exclusionism that's permeated in the form of not just denying that we're nonbinary, but then stating we literally can't use common labels for our sexuality because *insert lame excuse here*.

no, i don't think binary trans people necessarily have privilege over us for being binary in the same way like... cis people are privileged over trans people. but it is far simpler, societally, for a performative cis person to recognize a trans man or trans woman as the gender they are, then turn around and refuse to accept that someone is nonbinary. and even if a nonbinary person comes out and is accepted, people seem to always passively view that person through the lens of their agab, as if being nonbinary is just Trans Lite. (this is why you will never catch me defending the word "theyfab" btw, even if it's not a slur)

lots of the active trans discourse right now perpetuates this on both sides, really. the terms "transmasc" or "transfem" are inclusive of nonbinary people, sure, but it refuses to acknowledge the idea that some nonbinary people are neither transmasc nor transfem. you can't be both, obviously, but it is very possibly for someone to identify as neither if they are purely nonbinary or agender, among other identities. and this is actually why the terms tma/tme are so useful- because they actually get to the heart of the issue at hand.

tl;dr all trans people are gatekept from their gender, but nonbinary people are kept in this state of both being too trans for society to accept, and not trans enough for the lgbt community to care about us. therefore, exorsexism is a very real experience that needs to be acknowledged and diminished in the lgbt community as a whole.

[enemywasp]

Queer discourse is truly insane cause I literally just saw someone say they're in a relationship where he came out as a trans man, and his lesbian girlfriend stayed with him, and they're happy like that...

And the response is, "You're being invalidated, bro.", "May this love never find me," etc, etc.

Are you guys happy and secure in your relationship and identities??? Too bad, I say you're doing it wrong!

[chaos-in-one]

People who make half their damn account about how much they hate/dislike a certain lgbtq+ label will forever be wild to me

Like does something like that really take up that much of your thinking instead of... literally any of the many WAY more impactful problems that exist? Seriously? Other people's personal labels is what is bothering you enough to post about it that often?

[certifiedmotherfuckr]

As a trans gay teen living in a hostile state (FL) I CAN NOT overstate how STUPID label discourse is. I DONT CARE who gets to be a lesbian I care about retaining my rights , stop having pointless discussions that don't affect anything IRL and put that energy towards advocacy also can terf lesbians plz severely fuvk off I don't want to hear you say trans people are disgusting in new fun creative ways and rebrand it as feminism

I'll probs delete this later but whatevs

[dirk-fictive]

happy pride month heres your reminder that label discourse is stupid and if somebody's identity is in good faith (ex: isnt identifying as something 'controversial' to pick fights, or picking intentionally offensive names/labels to upset people) you have really no right to argue theyre being queer wrong because frankly none of us have the right to diminish or belittle other peoples identities

[evolvedclown]

i think alot of people online genuinely don’t understand what being queer is bc what do you mean he/him lesbians shouldn’t exist? yes i am talking about this again.

do you not know about all of the lesbians before us (decades and centuries before us) who would pretend to be men or even transition into men just so that they could be with their gfs/wives? all the old butches that call themselves boys and men but are still definitely lesbians? all the genderqueer lesbians that take t or id as transmasc or present completely masculine? the lesbians that prefer to be called your boyfriend or husband? they have always been here and you getting all of your queer information solely from tiktok or the first post you see online is not going to change that.

if you have your definition of a label that fits you, that’s amazing! it really is/srs. but that doesn’t mean that a label doesn’t have a different meaning for others. that’s how things work. everyone’s got their own nuance and it can conflict with others but the whole point of being queer is discovering who you are and loving it. not because it make sense, but because it feels right.